Goddessmyass Part 5

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Goddessmyass - part 5

When ever I hear a man complain about women not liking nice guys I think of what Joseph Cambell had to say about it. (Cambell is the guy who taught and wrote about myths from around the world). He said in myth (I don't remember which tradition) there is a golden road. Only the brave of heart and royal of barring can walk the golden road. Women want the man on this road. They will settle for the man who isn't on it. But they can't stand the man who doesn't belong there who tries to walk it and they despise the man who belongs on it and won't walk it.

BB (shall I call you bumblebee?), Mark, Roger: it looks to me like you need to gird your loins and hit the road ;^) I'm sure my brothers and sisters will be glad to correct me if I'm wrong.

This is my take on this: BB, Mark, and Roger are lonely brothers who are frustrated with their love lives and the apparent injustices in matters of the heart. As an aside, there is some frustration with the anger being vented by women over their own frustration.

Snarla, you reminded us of why women are venting and did a little venting along the way and then turned into Carla to apologize for being blunt about it. But Sn/Carla, I love your bluntness! You really cut through the ice on some issues I was about to take a torch to.

I think venting is a healthy and important part of being human. Things are always at least a little rough here on the material plane. Bitching and moaning, and even whining, can be useful tools in dealing with that roughness. Just remember (brothers AND sisters) to do it in moderation. Wallowing in the feeling does not improve anything.

Ok, now to the touchy stuff. I got the feeling you guys really would like to change something in the hopes of landing the loves of your lives. I am (quite happily) nobody, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

The problem here is in appealing to the kind of women you like while maintaining some integrity. That is going to be a serious problem for several reasons. To begin with, the competition if fierce. I think a lot of people here have forgotten that the world is full of wonderful men! Yah! Oh, sure, you' re going to see some guys at the Gathering treat their SO (significant other) in a way you don't think is good. MOST of the time it isn't abuse, just sniping or disrespect. But these guys aren't that way all the time. All of us have our ups and downs. My cynical side wonders if jealousy isn't colouring your take on the situation.

As to the women who do get caught up in abusive relationships, that's a whole nother post. There may be more of them at gatherings for two reasons; 1) they come for much needed heeling. 2) The same forces in society that bring the rest of us home gave them the insecurity and self doubt that makes a woman vulnerable to abuse.

Back to the issue of a man making himself appealing, the second problem is that women as a group are NOT attracted to jerks or "tushieholes". A very few are. Why are you interested in them? Nope, the problem is "the good ones are already taken"! I find it ironic none of you studs mentioned this. It's not just that MOST of the coolist sisters stay with their wonderful SO. It's that most people are in a relationship most of the time (not counting childhood), or are too busy for one (ex. Snarla)

The best of you, the most respectful and loving, have a special problem. If you don't come off as desperate, women are going to just assume someone as cool as you is taken. There may to no ring, no mention of a true love, no indication of it. Still, guys like you are just always taken. You have to actually do something (like a well timed and not too pushy lament) to tell women this is not so. That lament business, a comment in passing, can also fish out whether the person you are interested in is attached.

Then there is the familiarity problem. Converting friends into lovers is a rocky road full of pitfalls. Coming on to someone you don't know is offensive to both parties. To quote Carla "Yes, many of us women are offended by guys just coming onto us out of the blue. It has nothing to do with the approach, it has more to do with the fact that really, unless there has been conversation and a discovery of shared interests, or seeing the person at work or play doing whatever they do and noticing qualities we like, the attraction is always bound to be superficial. It's like, who does this guy think I am - his soulmate? That's nice, he only met me twenty minutes ago. Go away, dude, don't bother me. " You need to make it clear from the beginning if you want a relationship (other than friendship.) I do NOT mean get pushy. I mean make it clear in body language and speech pattern that you are looking for a mate, and are getting to know her for that purpose.

As to the "Your too nice", I have to break it to you guys, but this is a basic brush off. It's kind of like when a man tells a fat broad "No, your not fat. Just well rounded". According to my husband (who should know) if a woman feeds you this line it means you aren't a total jerk, but you aren't a great catch either. In my own experience (yes, to my shame I have used this line) it means the guy in question is mildly obnoxious, a wimp, sloppy in the way he handles his feelings, boring, or some combination. Please remember that one womans dud is anothers godsend. As to the women who use it, they really do just want to be friends. They like you. They don't love (lust after) you.

You got to reach out for love, so you end up courting. This brings us to my last point (finally!) How you behave, how you treat others, has a great deal to do with your love life. For what it's worth here are my courtship tips: The most important part of a loving relationship is HOW YOUR S.O. MAKES YOU FEEL. The flip side is if you want to get a keep a true love, you have to make that person feel good when they are with you.

OK, so how do you do that without turning into a smarmy, superficial cad (What my mom calls the "charming louse", of which Rainbow has plenty.) It's not so hard. Just let that heart throbbing, fascinated, I-love-to-be-with-you feeling show. Look at her face when she talks. Actually listen, and let her talk as much as you do. Let a little extra warmth creep into your voice when you talk. Smile. A lot Laugh WITH each other. This can be hard for guys who let our society imprint them too much, but try to feel the shared feeling between you. When it gets so that MUTUAL feeling is warm with a tingling air of anticipation, it's time to offer a kiss. Do not expect this to go anywhere, but be ready if it does. If your leaning toward her and she aint leaning toward you, you read her wrong and might be looking at a slap.

This last bit SHOULD come after you have learning enough to know for sure there is no one else in her life, and she wishes there was, and you could be it. Now girls, this works exactly the same going the other way. If you want a man in your life, you got to let him know it. Let him know he's the best thing to come along.

And all of this has to be done with the right timing. The right emotional speed. The right point in both of your lives. The right time and place....

I don't think women are confused at all. They want to be made to feel good by a man they naturally respect. They want to be swept away with both warmth and excitement. They want both respect and help. They want the man who walks the golden road, but only if he belongs there.

Montana Crystal

From: BoomBdBoom <boomb...@aol.com>

> When ever I hear a man complain about women not liking nice guys I think of what Joseph Cambell had to say about it. (Cambell is the guy whotaught and wrote about myths from around the world). He said in myth (I don't remember which tradition) there is a golden road. ...

How wonderfully enlightening! Thank you!

Ah, but still I lament for the woman who can walk/work beside me in good spirit! All the good women seem to be taken also! Your beautiful sentiments give me hope, though, (and some technique!). Sunray J

From: "sunray" <eg...@wi-net.com>

> Ah, but still I lament for the woman who can walk/work beside me in good spirit! All the good women seem to be taken also! Your beautiful sentiments give me hope, though, (and some technique!). Sunray J

Yeah, that's the point, what road do women walk on anyway ? And if there is no answer then who builded the golden road, and beside gold what is it made of ? That's how I see it: the road, is the heart we put into it, women's have their own, merging them does not systematically make them bigger...

Anyway, if you can look at any women, knowing that you love her, in any women that is going to love you, can create with that boundless love... then it can happen. But dont expect of her, expect of yourself to be capable of loving, and it will surely happen... All with you... But I am just a man...

Do you go out at least once a week, just to meet. Do you date out to eat at least once a month ? Social relations rarely fall from the sky, you ought to create them... How are you going to make more rainbow people, if you sit behing your computer ? Am I talking nonsense ? No use walking that road alone anyway in the first place...

With love, care, and humor...
See the good in all, leave the rest.
I love you Butterfly Bill,

Kriss

In article <756C127A30.alt.gathering.rainbow@law.ua.edu>, cbar...@law.ua.edu (Christophe Barbey) writes:

> Yeah, that's the point, what road do women walk on anyway ? And if there is no answer then who builded the golden road, and beside gold what is it made of ? That's how I see it: the road, is the heart we put into it, women's have their own, merging them does not systematically make them bigger...
> Anyway, if you can look at any women, knowing that you love her, in any women that is going to love you, can create with that boundless love... then it can happen. But dont expect of her, expect of yourself to be capable of loving, and it will surely happen... All with you... (snip) Social relations rarely fall from the sky, you ought to create them... Am I talking nonsense ? No use walking that road alone anyway in the first place...

Exactly.

All of life is just a state of being. Silly, but true. It is what we thing and how we feel about it that makes our world either heaven or hell. So why not think about the good parts, while leaving room, a mental readiness, for more.

For example: Joe Shmoe is walking down the street. So far today he has found a quarter, drooled over a djembe in a store window, and nearly gotten run over. After shaking the adrenalin rush from the near accident he thinks about how nice it would be if he found enough quarters to buy the drum. It's just a pipe dream, but it makes him happy. He smiles while he thinks about it. Jane Doe is walking down the street toward him and sees this most peculiar smile on his face. She has seen the near accident and just can't help herself. She stops him and asks how he can be happy when he was nearly killed. He is embarrased, but tells her about her pipe dream. Well, she'd seen that djembe too and knows just how he feels. "Hey, wait a minute. I know where we can get some quarters" she says and the two of them go on a long and envolved adventure to collect money to buy the drum. Along the way they find out they have more than a drum in comin. Twenty years later they are still together. It's a good idea to smile.

The Golden Road is a state of being, a way of carying oneself. It has to do with walking a "path with heart" to quote Cambell again (Man that dude could rock!). A path with heart is allowing ones true interests to dictate what one does with oneself. Only people who are on the path with heart, whatever that may be for them, are really satisfied with life. That goes for men and women. We aren't nearly as different as Babylon would have us beleive.

Montana Crystal

Beautiful posts MC. Thanks.

But there is no way you can understand a man's Golden Road. A road with heart (continuing with your terminology) does not mean satisfaction. The way of the warrior is hard. It is filled with pain and struggle and fear. Perhaps there is satisfaction at the end. Perhaps God welcomes the Man who has walked his highest destiny with a special love. But this man does not require reward. The life lived by the peace warrior is a life of trial and passage through the unknown. Anyone can shine a light on a sunny lovely day. Living Light means finding the Way through darkness my sister.

LUV
BULL

WOW, who is THIS woman and where has she been lurking all our lives?

An essay that's more than writing, it's composition. An ancient myth for an adagio introduction, an allegro flourish into the "Hit the road" theme, then a long development section where every paragraph segues seamlessly into the next, climaxing in the most complex and turgid paragraph of the piece, the "OK, so how do you do it...", then a lightening of the tempo while it is all summarized in the "The last bit SHOULD come...", then a recapitulation of the myth as the orchestra thins out to high strings.

I mean - bra-VO! Maybe she misspelled a few words, but shit, so do I - somebody could edit it.

First AwiNoquisi and Holly come in on a blaze of trumpets, and about a week later in comes Montana Crystal with the low brass booming. This is getting to be a jam.

Now that I have given some sparse hints as to my general impression, I want to nitpick it line by line - making it perhaps look like something on Alt.atheism. There aren't too many refutations, a lot of clarifications, and I will even agree a lot.

Now I'm first reading this, wondering if it's gonna be a flame or not, and it's hard figuring out whuther she's fer me or agin' me.

> BB (shall I call you bumblebee?),

I wish I could see her facial expression, if she's smiling, probably she thought that whole game was funny - but if she's frowning, maybe she's implying that Bumblebee is the more appropriate name (possible insult).

> Mark, Roger: it looks to me like you need to gird your loins and hit the road ;^)

She told me to hit the road (another possible insult) - but, wait a minute. She said it's bad to deserve it and not walk it, and she's telling me to walk it - so that must mean I deserve it (profound compliment). Well - - let's read it some more...

> This is my take on this: BB, Mark, and Roger are lonely brothers who are frustrated with their love lives and the apparent injustices in matters of the heart.

Correct, except I'm not so sure of the sense of "apparent". If it means appearing to me, correct, but the word also might mean illusory. It's been too apparent to me for the last 35 years and agreed to by reports of other people encountered in those same years to allow me to think it's illusory.

> As an aside, there is some frustration with the anger being vented by women over their own frustration.

It's more than an aside - it may not be exactly in the middle, but it's quite integral to about everything that produces my frustration.

> But Sn/Carla, I love your bluntness! You really cut through the ice on some issues I was about to take a torch to.

I'm telling you, some of the best composed , most poetic, and sometimes downright funny posts have been when somebody has written off a long simmering anger funk. I would put that one up alongside "The gods die tonight", by Miranda Raven.

> Just remember (brothers AND sisters) to do it in moderation. Wallowing in the feeling does not improve anything.

I believe in moderation in all things, and "all things" includes this statement. Sometimes it is good for both the nervous and endocrine systems to go off on a binge so you can experience a few things you can't otherwise. Prudence becomes more important, of course - but sometimes even that must be abandoned extremely. A Rainbow Gathering is - for me - a glorious extreme that I go to once or twice a year - no, I could not live at a Gathering year around.

I know that - now that the second act of this play has started, with the entry of Snarla, and the plot is thickening and developing rapidly -I am going to go to an extreme with this newsgroup trip. I used to come into the lab twice or thrice a week - now I guess I'm gonna have to hit it every day. I just started this last May, this is the first time I have done this talking on the computer game - and it has turned into one of the damnedest things that I have ever gotten into. I can't believe I've been doing some of the shit I've been doing. This no doubt will eventually settle down, and yield my attention to the next obsession I have to take in order to get my spiritual degree. But right now - yes, I'm gonna sit and whine at the computer. It's the first time anything's ever whined back at me.

> OK, now to the touchy stuff. I got the feeling you guys really would like to change something

Correct.

> in the hopes of landing the loves of your lives.

Not really, any more. It would not now make me happy simply to be rollin' in my sweet baby's arms - not when I can still hear the couple fighting in the other house, not while the divorce rate is 1 in 2, not while domestic violence is the leading situation for homicide, not while so many kids are growing up fucked up, not while I can't stand to listen to 90% of the lyrics to the songs on the radio - words that glorify jealousy and irrational abandonment to passions. I'm getting too old to start a family. My dharma must be different. For me, the only satisfying solution can be revolution. I think the system is irrational and brutal. I want to change it.

This is the cause I could devote all my passions to. If there were a group of people that were devoted to this, I would obsessively take up their sign, their microphone, their telephone.

But right now there really ain't one. The women's movement has dealt with some of this, with their exploration of removing sex roles, and their concern with domestic violence, but men's feelings haven't been explored too much. The gay movement has spoken to me, with their freedom to be gentle and silly, and the male affection they offer me, but they don't tell me how to relate to women. The men's movement has given me some of the same, but so much of it seems to be searches for new macho trips to replace the old. The Rainbow Family has opened people to me in many ways, but as the sisters will tell you, a lot of the same old bar games are played there too. There's nobody really interested in revolutionary love.

So why don't I start something, then? Well, I'm like Moses before the burning bush. "But Lord, I am short of speech..." Cynical old fart Bumblebee Bill advocating revolutionary love? Wouldn't that be like Hummingbird Cowboy trying to be the pastor of a Unity Temple? So I'm casting about in places like a.g.r - hell, I don't know - something might come up.

> I am (quite happily) nobody, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

You've just turned yourself into a great big somebody to all of us here, sister.

from

> The problem here is in appealing to the kind of women you like while maintaining some integrity. That is going to be a serious problem for several reasons. To begin with, the competition if fierce. ...

> ...And all of this has to be done with the right timing. The right emotional speed. The right point in both of your lives. The right time and place....

An excellent introduction to the general theory - but still painfully short of details. How do we tell the right this and that. We're still having to sort out contradictory behavior. We're still having to try to read your minds.

> I don't think women are confused at all. They want to be made to feel good by a man they naturally respect. They want to be swept away with both warmth and excitement. They want both respect and help. They want the man who walks the golden road, but only if he belongs there. I want all of those same things, but I'm confused about how to get them - and so are most of the women I'll ever have a chance with.

> Montana Crystal

Is there a story behind your name?

Wait, I still got some stuff with the other people before I go.

Talking to your tits,
and all that M.C. said about looking into her eyes:

In America, people make a big thing about people looking you in the eye. If someone doesn't do this, he can't be trusted, he's tying to hide something. This is actually culture specific behavior. In Japan, for instance, an inferior must never look into a superior's eyes, but look down in humility. And in modern Japan, superior-inferior can be things like diner-waiter or customer-salesperson.

With my right hemisphere brain, my RAM sometimes gets overloaded if I have to deal with the very intense stimulus of someone's face and eyes and at the same time have to do stuff like talk in sequential language - often no small task by itself for me. If you want me to talk with you, you're gonna have to let me look off into space to collect my thoughts before every few sentences. I am attracted by this behavior in women. If she looks about as she talks, she's another weirdo like me. I feel very uncomfortable with someone staring at me like a TV when talking with me. I have learned to consciously look at people in business situations, because I know some people make a big deal of it - but it really doesn't matter where you look with me.

Someone staring at your tits may be just staring off into space, which your tits just happen to be in front of. Maybe he's still feeling too shy to look at you, and he doing the equivalent of an oriental bow. Or maybe you've got some good ones, and they are.

Kriss said,

> I love you, Butterfly Bill.

Kriss, you are such a god damn sweet little bunny wunny that I'm convinced you could have brought all operations to a halt in Auschwitz as soon as you hippity hopped off that boxcar and wiggled your little nose. How is it possible for ANYONE to hate you, the way you carry on? You could charm Joe Stalin. All right already -I LOVE YOU, KRISS!!!!!! Now, can we get on to the other stuff, now?

- Butterfly Bill

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Bill-

have you read "Fire in the Belly" by Sam Keene?

marc

> The Golden Road is a state of being, a way of carying oneself. It has to do with walking a "path with heart" to quote Cambell again (Man that dude could rock!). A path with heart is allowing ones true interests to dictate what one does with oneself. Only people who are on the path with heart, whatever that may be for them, are really satisfied with life. That goes for men and women. We aren't nearly as different as Babylon would have us beleive.
> Montana Crystal

Good fun....

Follow your instincts a lot, they know. Let klove and happiness, carry you! Why not ?

And once that is rolling, once you know you can let life treat you right, like you know your in the garden...

Walk out, try to make this place Earth, more of a garden of the Heart... Share it, and dont be afraid to lose it; by now you know the way anyway...

Thank you Montana Crystal,
Love you all !

Kriss

In article <34330AA8.385E.alt.gathering.rainbow@cyberramp.net>, pc...@cyberramp.net (starwatcher) writes:

> Bill-
> have you read "Fire in the Belly" by Sam Keene?
> marc

I don't know anything about it. Could you give us a cliff-notes type description of it, marc?

Montana Crystal

PS to BB. I will be replying to your post soon. Lots more to say.

> Beautiful posts MC.

Thanks.

> But there is no way you can understand a man's Golden Road.

Don't be so sure of that. I may be female in this incarnation, but I'm pretty sure I was male in most of the last few. Most of my friends agree this is likely. Or maybe it's just the way I was brought up....

> A road with heart (continuing with your terminology) does not mean satisfaction. The way of the warrior is hard. It is filled with pain and struggle and fear.

Yes, the way of the warrior is hard. That doesn't mean it is without satisfaction. I'm not talking about comfort here. I mean a path with heart is one that allows you to "follow your bliss" (another Joseph Campbell phrase.) It's a matter of doing whatever it is that turns your crank on a spiritual, long term, personal level. For me that may be playing drums. For you that may be jousting with local sheriff over unjust arrests. It's going to be different for everyone. But it's the thing that makes life worth living. Campbell's example was when he chose to study myth and make a living at it (a dodgy thing to do when no one else was doing it) when he was offered a lucrative but, for him, boring post in a different field.

> Perhaps there is satisfaction at the end. Perhaps God welcomes the Man who has walked his highest destiny with a special love.

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply this. A path with heart is a purely personal thing. It's great when ones special love can be involved, but it isn't really a love life thing.

> But this man does not require reward. The life lived by the peace warrior is a life of trial and passage through the unknown. Anyone can shine a light on a sunny lovely day. Living Light means finding the Way through darkness my sister.

Oh so painfully true. And not at all an easy thing to do. However, I have noticed that it helps to remember it's ones own state of mind that makes of earth a heaven or a hell. Why not turn torture into joy? I have heard of a woman who smiled and joked with her litteral torturers. Made them uncomfortable. Ask me about my hike through Wells Grey Provincial Park some time. ;-)

> LUV
> BULL

I'm glad you responded to my post. I keep waiting for someone to come out and say "Come on. You don't know so much." It's true. None of us do.

Montana Crystal

BoomB...@aol.com
Http://members.aol.com/BoomBdBoom/store.html for musical instruments

BoomBdBoom wrote:

> I don't know anything about it. Could you give us a cliff-notes type description of it, marc?

Sam Keen (sorry I misspelled it first time) is a graduate of Harvard Divinity School that has gone beyond his training (thank god). He is a white male/50ish/married twice/ 3 children/ that has undertaking the task of rethinking what it means to be male.

I hesitate to use buzz words ( as easy as that might be ) because you may jump to a hasty conclusion based on what that buzz word means to you. However, to me, he is one of the foremost thinkers of the modern men's movement besides Robert BLy (Iron John) and John Lee.

Having read most of the major books of the women's movement and lived with and loved a liberated woman, I was familiar with the damage done by patriarchy to women. What Keen's book did for me was open my eyes to the damage done to men. It was as perpective changing in my life as recovering lost memories of child abuse.

One of the things i love about Sam's writing is that he does not stay in victimhood but moves on to what needs to be done both personally and socially, to recover from that harm and prevent it from happening again. As we all know, unrecovered victims of abuse tend to go on to become abusers. (look at Israel)

To give you a idea where Keen's head is at, his next book after "Fire in the Belly" is " Hymns to an Unknown God: Awaking the Spirit in Everyday Life"

I read "Fire" 4 yrs ago and i still find myself relating to it as i grow in life and understanding. It was and is seminial (there's a male word) in my understanding of patriarchy and maleness and what is healthy and what is not.

love ya'll,
Marc

In article <19971002010138.12660.qmail.alt.gathering.rainbow@hotmail.com>, butter...@hotmail.com (Butterfly Bill) writes:

> WOW, who is THIS woman and where has she been lurking all our lives?

<snip>

Wow! What a great response! Thank you.

I've been here quite a while. I usually like to hold off and see if someone else will say what I want to say. Someone usually does. When they don't then by the time I get to it, the topic will have died out. This time I just couldn't resist. Who can resist love? :-) I kind of lost it and didn't even read from about late January to late June. In May I gave birth to a little girl. Nice to get that load off my belly. LOL.

> I mean - bra-VO! Maybe she misspelled a few words, but shit, so do I - somebody could edit it.

My spelling is a total albatross. It's one of the reasons I usually just lurk. I offer, right now, one big apology for all the misspelling I have committed and all the misspelling I will commit. Would you believe I even ran this sucker through a spell checker? It probably doesn't help that I tend to invent words without noticing.

> > Mark, Roger: it looks to me like you need to gird your loins and hit the road ;^)
> She told me to hit the road (another possible insult) - but, wait a minute. She said it's bad to deserve it and not walk it, and she's telling me to walk it - so that must mean I deserve it (profound compliment).

Glad you took it the right way. I think all three of you dudes have posted some great stuff.

> > This is my take on this: BB, Mark, and Roger are lonely brothers who are frustrated with their love lives and the apparent injustices in matters of the heart.
> Correct, except I'm not so sure of the sense of "apparent". If it means appearing to me, correct, but the word also might mean illusory. It's been too apparent to me for the last 35 years and agreed to by reports of other people encountered in those same years to allow me to think it's illusory.

Oh I'm so glad you picked up on that. There's a lot behind it. First I do NOT mean that you do not see your situation correctly. I would never be so foolish as to think that of anyone. (and it ticks me off when others make that mistake about me)

One of the levels on which I am using the word "apparent" is in reference to the concept that all life is illusory. A lot of the problems people have in their love lives has to do with the nature of Maya (the Indian kind, as in all-of-life-is-illusion). You can tell this when you play around a little with perspective. For example, a couple has a fight. She has one take on what happened and why. He has another. A friend who acted as innocent bystander will have a third. A disembodied but interested spirit will have still another. Some of those perspectives may see the fight as the result of gender differences. Others may not.

I have found more and more that when I pull my perspective back as far as I can and still see the movie at all, that a lot of injustice turns out to be life lessons. Injustice of any type is often a matter of perspective.

I've got a lot more to say about this, but don't want to take up the band width. I just hope this gets the gist of it across.

> > As an aside, there is some frustration with the anger being vented by women over their own frustration.
> It's more than an aside - it may not be exactly in the middle, but it's quite integral to about everything that produces my frustration.

Silly me. Romantic love is one of my favorite topics (right after divine nature). I guess I was letting my mind run rampant over the whole topic rather than primarily the frustration factor. Also, I was working from a point of synergy having to do with where the three of you (you, Mark, and Roger) come to an agreement. Although you all come to a point, you do it from all different angles. I wasn't always giving yours full weight when I framed my answer.

> > But Sn/Carla, I love your bluntness! You really cut through the ice on some issues I was about to take a torch to.
> I'm telling you, some of the best composed , most poetic, and sometimes downright funny posts have been when somebody has written off a long simmering anger funk. I would put that one up alongside "The gods die tonight", by Miranda Raven.

> > Just remember (brothers AND sisters) to do it in moderation. Wallowing in the feeling does not improve anything.
> I believe in moderation in all things, and "all things" includes this statement. Sometimes it is good for both the nervous and endocrine systems to go off on a binge so you can experience a few things you can't otherwise. Prudence becomes more important, of course - but sometimes even that must be abandoned extremely. A Rainbow Gathering is - for me - a glorious extreme that I go to once or twice a year - no, I could not live at a Gathering year around.

I agree that a binder in any form now and then can be great. Great fun even when the other benefits don't kick in. I was thinking more along the lines of when people turn bitching into a habit. Even in a single bitch session I have noticed that at some point the energies released begin to turn back. Then you get an amplification effect. Kind of takes the therapy out of it.

<snip>

> > OK, now to the touchy stuff. I got the feeling you guys really would like to change something
> Correct.
> > in the hopes of landing the loves of your lives.
> Not really, any more.

This is that full weight business again. I did read the post in which you gave your lovelife history. Not all of us were born with a pre-ordained mate. Some of us (the ones with really heavy trips in store) aren't really supposed to mate at all. Just not enough time for it.

> Not really, any more. It would not now make me happy simply to be rollin' in my sweet baby's arms - not when I can still hear the couple fighting in the other house, not while the divorce rate is 1 in 2, not while domestic violence is the leading situation for homicide, not while so many kids are growing up fucked up, not while I can't stand to listen to 90% of the lyrics to the songs on the radio - words that glorify jealousy and irrational abandonment to passions. I'm getting too old to start a family. My dharma must be different. For me, the only satisfying solution can be revolution. I think the system is irrational and brutal. I want to change it.

So does this mean you don't want a love life? Are you just trying to see the perspective of women in general, or just want to be friends? Do you want to be a knight in shining armor for the female gender? Trying to expand your role as a man? Some combination? I guess I'm still unclear on what you need.

> > I am (quite happily) nobody, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.
> You've just turned yourself into a great big somebody to all of us here, sister.

This comment has a lot to do with my spiritual perspective. I am NOT being humble when I say it. Makes a nice little irony that I get a kick out of.

> > ...And all of this has to be done with the right timing. The right emotional speed. The right point in both of your lives. The right time and place....
> An excellent introduction to the general theory - but still painfully short of details. How do we tell the right this and that. We're still having to sort out contradictory behavior. We're still having to try to read your minds.

Timing has a whole book's worth of material to it. I know I glossed over it big time. I'll try to do it justice soon.

As to reading our minds, give as a few examples of times (LOL, I love puns) when you felt a woman did something that befuddled you and us gals will try to sort it out. (Have we covered the abuse business, or would you like more impute on that?) I think some of the apparent confusion (yes, same kind of apparent) is just a matter of knowing what kinds of experiences men vs women go through on a daily basis. Some of it is so individual that we can't help on it. Everyone here would just shrug their shoulders and say "I don't know what s/he thinks s/he is doing."

> > Montana Crystal
> Is there a story behind your name?

Yep. Sure is. When I first logged on to agr (almost 2 years ago now) I signed everything Cris, which is what I go by in Babylon. Then I noticed someone else was signing as Cris, even the same spelling ;^}. So I switched to Crystal, which is the name on my birth certificate. Yet another person was signing under that. Now I'm starting to wonder if it's just coincidence or if god is talking to me.

When I first moved out to Wisconsin a woman from the local circle named me Montana, that being where I had just moved from. I was going to just sign as Montana, but I got the feeling that would also turn out to be someone else's name. So I stuck Montana and Crystal together. So far I haven't seen anyone else signing that way.

> Wait, I still got some stuff with the other people before I go.
> Talking to your tits, and all that M.C. said about looking into her eyes:
> In America, people make a big thing about people looking you in the eye. If someone doesn't do this, he can't be trusted, he's tying to hide something. This is actually culture specific behavior. In Japan, for instance, an inferior must never look into a superior's eyes, but look down in humility. And in modern Japan, superior-inferior can be things like diner-waiter or customer-salesperson.
> With my right hemisphere brain, my RAM sometimes gets overloaded if I have to deal with the very intense stimulus of someone's face and eyes and at the same time have to do stuff like talk in sequential language - often no small task by itself for me. If you want me to talk with you, you're gonna have to let me look off into space to collect my thoughts before every few sentences.

When I'm just talking this happens to me too. But when you are trying to get the extra heat, the stronger contact needed for romance, eye contact is where it's at. The whole point is that it does intensify a relationship. Most of us do this without thinking. But it CAN wig you out.

BTW, if you do it right you can get a buzz off it.

> I am attracted by this behavior in women. If she looks about as she talks, she's another weirdo like me. I feel very uncomfortable with someone staring at me like a TV when talking with me. I have learned to consciously look at people in business situations, because I know some people make a big deal of it - but it really doesn't matter where you look with me.
> Someone staring at your tits may be just staring off into space, which your tits just happen to be in front of. Maybe he's still feeling too shy to look at you, and he doing the equivalent of an oriental bow. Or maybe you've got some good ones, and they are.

There is a noticeable difference between a guy who's checking you out and one just using your chest as a stare spot. For one, if it's a stare spot his eyes won't be focused. For another, most guys when caught looking will look away guiltily. Others will literally talk to your tits. It's the ones who don't even glance at your face that are annoying. Also, a chest starepot is often on the sternum, a good 4-5 inches higher.

For what it's worth, I stare spot at chests too.

> Kriss said,
> > I love you, Butterfly Bill.
> Kriss, you are such a god damn sweet little bunny wunny
<snip>
> How is it possible for ANYONE to hate you, the way you carry on? You could charm Joe Stalin.
All right already -I LOVE YOU, KRISS!!!!!! Now, can we get on to the other stuff, now?
> - Butterfly Bill

Oh. I thought that WAS the other stuff ;^} LOL. A comment to Rose; “all the good ones are taken" is a timing thing. They don't stay taken all the time. The pickier they are, the longer they go untaken. And just because someone is single doesn't mean they are available.

Hints for newbe's:

(if you don't know what a newbe is, you are one. Think of it as New Be):

;^} is a grin and a wink.

:-) is a smile

LOL is Laugh Out Loud,

LOLROF is Laughing Out Loud and Rolling On the Floor.

<snip> means I cut something out.

BTW is By The Way

HO has nothing to do with the red light district

Montana Crystal

BoomB...@aol.com
Http://members.aol.com/BoomBdBoom/store.html for musical instruments

Dear BoombdBoom

I just can't see this cross sex thing. I mean when brothers start blabbing about women having balls because of some imaginary anatomical whim that they have made up to be politically correct I start to wretch. And now this business of 'I used to be a man in another lifetime'. Come on.

Are you guys for real? Am I just a reactionary macho ignoramous? I'm proud to be a MAN! I was always a MAN! I don't want to be gay or bi or trans or have some murky imagined past where I was just a sweet little girl. I don't see it guys. I know that most of you find me too obnoxious to respond too, but I just think some of you take your so called open minds too far and start to spout meaningless drivel.

BoomBdBoom you sound like quite a woman. Do you really honestly believe this transsexual reincarnation stuff? You don't sound like a politically correct sweet talker but then again you do alot of quoting which can conveniently replace thinking. Oops I'm getting obnoxious again. Sorry. Real men speak their minds and only the strong of character can confront them. But I do want to learn from my AGR brethren.

Are you guys with the 'women have balls, I was a man once' line of thought, hermaphrodites with dual genitals? Then I geuss you can fuck yourselves. Oops I'm insulting everyone again.

I really am sorry. I talk like this too and often get in trouble. (with small minded losers)

So Kill Me If I Have Actually Thoughts and Opinions

LUV
BULL

> Oops I'm insulting everyone again. I really am sorry. I talk like this too and often get in trouble. (with small minded losers)

Dearest Roger,

You are such a liar. You are not sorry at all. We all know how much you love being obnoxious. It's one of your many charms, you old troll, you.

Your loving cyber-consort,

Carla

> Hints for newbe's:

> (if you don't know what a newbe is, you are one. Think of it as New Be):
> ;^} is a grin and a wink.
> :-) is a smile
> LOL is Laugh Out Loud,
> LOLROF is Laughing Out Loud and Rolling On the Floor.
> <snip> means I cut something out.
> BTW is By The Way
> HO has nothing to do with the red light district

How about :

:-o HO ? I agree ? I support what was just said.( Originally when we were sitting in a circle together, someone(s) used that expression to show support and it stuck.

:- NA ? The oposite ? What is a ?? universal way of expressing dissension, not to agree??

peace and love + irb ++

> How about :
> :-o HO ? I agree ? I support what was just said.( Originally when we were sitting in a circle together, someone(s) used that expression to show support and it stuck.

:- NA ? The oposite ? What is a ?? universal way of expressing dissension, not to agree??

mainstream - boo hiss hiss

rainbow - wait for feather or block silence when consensus is called.

marc

> :-o HO ? I agree ? I support what was just said.( Originally when we were sitting in a circle together, someone(s) used that expression to show support and it stuck.

Ho ho ho, mery christmas.

> BoomBdBoom you sound like quite a woman. Do you really honestly believe this transsexual reincarnation stuff? You don't sound like a politically correct sweet talker but then again you do alot of quoting which can conveniently replace thinking

Roger, really, is reincarnation that difficult for you to imagine as just possibly having an ounce of truth to it??? Come on, it's really not a very radical concept, 75% of the worlds population takes it for granted, kind of like they take a concept of god for granted. Is it just the "transsexual" aspect of reincarnation that you have so much trouble with? cuz if you can for a second or two imagine that reincarnation itself might be true, then all you need to see is that alot of sexuality is in the wiring, then ... wow, you have the makings of a little moment of enlightenment.

Yes you are just a reactionary macho ignoramous. It takes one to know one. Hey wait just a munuite!!!! Who said that??? Why I'll...

Heres a funny thing I saw one time, there was this rotwilier dog, big beautifull agressive thing, but his powers of perception were a bit basic. And he was eating his dinner one time while laying down. He had an itch by his collar, and his foot kept comming up by his food bowl trying to scratch that itch. But every time the foot came close enough to the itch to scratch, he ferociously snapped and growled at his own foot and chased it back to where it was sopposed to be, away from the food bowl. Alas, the itch never got scratched.

That thcary thatan thure do hath an itthhch.

That'th all folk'th!!!
I-I-I lovthz ya sumpin fierth!!!
Mark...

Eathy there luthifur, iz justht methin with ya!!!

You are so right. I'll never bite my foot again.

This general discussion trickled on into more threads in the following weeks,
but here I am calling THE END

Google Advanced Group Search can be accessed by first calling up a group name in Google Groups (alt.gathering.rainbow is at https://roups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.gathering.rainbow) and then clicking on the little black arrowhead inside the search window at the top of the page – at the extreme right, just to the left of the blue magnifying glass search button).

Not all posts can be found in Google’s archive; posters had the option of putting “X-No-Archive” in their headers, and some other posts are apparently completely lost for other reasons. ("The Golden Road of Love" is one of these; fortunately Sunray quoted it completely in his reply). Using their search engine is also hit and miss; I sometimes had to try several combinations of words to find some posts. The originals of all of these posts can most easily be found by enclosing the thread name in quotation marks in the Subject: box.

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