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Utah & California Banking Reports

I have been walking around the evening dinner circle with the Magic Hat bucket since 2000, and have been a part of the banking council that decides to whom the money collected is given (mostly the focalizers of the main supply tent and in turn the people driving to the nearest towns to obtain the supplies). The banking council is one that not many people have wanted to be on, and those who do try it often want to leave after only one or a few gatherings. My rare willingness to keep on doing it has provided me a niche in the gathering structure where I have got many expressions of appreciation.

For a while I posted complete reports of where the Magic Hat money went on alt.gathering.rainbow. I stopped doing this after the 2004 California gathering, and you can get a good idea of the reasons why (and why so few other people want to get involved with the Magic Hat) from reading these two threads.

I have gathered them together here into one document, converting them from web pages produced by Google Advanced Groups Search. I have made no changes or corrections to anybody’s posts, with this exception: I have shortened quoted sections, since in some cases people quoted entire posts, including quotes of quotes therein, and to reproduce all of these would make this document way too long.

– Butterfly Bill


> Quoted text appears like this.

> > Quotes of quotes appear like this.

The author’s own words appear like this.


 


From: Butterfly Bill
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 19, 2003
Newsgroups: alt.gathering.rainbow

All about how your money went into and out of the Magic Hat at the recent Utah national gathering can now be viewed at

http://www.grapevine.net/~butterflybill/UtahBank.htm

-Butterfly Bill


2003 Utah Banking Report

This year again I served on the Banking Council, appearing every evening at Dinner Circle and carrying one of the two 5-gallon buckets we have with "Magic Hat" in decorative letters on a sheet of paper taped to their outsides. Some of the evenings Diamond Dave showed up to help out, and when he did he used a real hat, the one that normally sat on his head. Most evenings we found singers and guitar players willing to accompany us as we went around. After dinner was all served out, we would take all the containers out to the middle of the circle and count the contents, separating the bills by denomination and laying them out in piles on a small piece of quilted cloth that I carried in my pack for the purpose and laid on the grass. Every pile was always counted at least twice by two separate people. This was the time we called the banking council meeting, and we told all who asked to come at this time with their requests.

Repeated and consistent participation in person every evening in all this was de facto the qualification for being "on the bank" and having one's opinions have real weight in decisions, but we always allowed anyone who showed up a meeting to take part in the discussions. There were three who came consistently over the course of the gathering, Marken, myself, and Owl, who repeatedly insisted that he wasn't "really a member of the banking council", but played a big part in all the decisions we made.

When not at the circle, one of the buckets sat on the counter at Information, and sometimes the other was carried around the gathering by a volunteer we managed to inveigle up. Some days the money from the daytime Info hat was more that what we gathered at dinner.

All of our meetings were pretty much controversy-free until the 6th., when at Info we finally took up the matter of a sister who had come to us before showing us a receipt from a produce distributor for over 3000 dollars. Her kitchen had bought all that in a city near her home and brought it to the gathering in the early days, and now she wanted to be reimbursed for it by the Magic Hat. They had bought some of it on credit. She was willing to ask for only a third of it, only $1,060.

But Owl piped up and said that the Hat isn't a credit institution, that they should have restricted their buying only to what they had, and that if we did what they asked for even only three or four other kitchens, the bank would be wiped out. At the time we had just a little under the $5,000 that Plunker was wanting for cleanup. I was soon agreeing and blocking. The meeting dragged on for almost two hours, she trying again and again to haggle us up, until we finally all agreed to let her have $300. Earlier at dinner another brother came and told us he was "destitute" and needed gas money to get him back to New York. We told him that going-away money was normally something we gave only in the final days of cleanup, and some suggested that he look for a rider who had gas money. "You know that sister Loopy, who is always going around naked? She's looking for a ride to New York. You can take a naked girl all the way back." But he got angry and stormed off, muttering about how he had been hauling water and digging shitters and "this Rainbow is a one-way trip".

When all was done on the 8th., we had $4759.25 left, including the change, and when I left Marken was still holding it, but we had planned to entrust it to Floppy at Lovin' Oven, whom Plunker recommended. This is a discrepancy of +$129.32 from the remainder of $ 4629.93 obtained from subtracting the total recorded expenditures from the total recorded income, so some of the money collected in the early days didn't get written down. This is an error of 0.98 percent.

My traditional numismatic embezzlement consisted of a 1979 Susan B. Anthony dollar and a 1976 Eisenhower silver dollar.

– Butterfly Bill

 

Income

 

Dinner Circle

Info Bucket

Day's Total

June 22

128

 

128

June 25

97

101

198

June 26

148

 

148

June 27

286

258

544

June 28

735

392

1,127

June 29

801

216

1,017

June 30

876

203

1,079

July 1

1,050

1,075

2,125

July 2

1,662

588

2,250

July 3

1,432

558

1,990

July 4

692

238

930

July 5

396

299

695

July 6

91

391

482

July 7

 

60

60

 

 

Total Change

431.25

 

 

Grand Total

13,204.25

These daily totals are only of the paper bills collected. The change was all thrown into a common can and counted all at once at the end. The change amounted to 3.26 percent of the total.

On June 23 and 24, no Dinner Circle was held due to the ground being covered by a foot of snow. On July 7, the Dinner Circle space was preempted by Vision Council.

 

Expenditures

June 27

Burger King (meal for supply driver)

8.16

 

Chevron in Salt Lake City UT

5.28

 

Ream's, 2783 S. State St., Salt Lake City UT

462.77

 

The Last Chance Sinclair, Evanston WY

4.41

June 29

Wal-Mart (copy Raps)

10.00

June 30

C.A.L.M.

400.00

July 1

Ream's

23.62

 

Ream's

147.80

 

Ream's

1,308.29

 

Taco Time (meal for supply driver)

4.93

July 3

Kessimaki's Produce, 995 S 500 W, Salt Lake City UT

2,267.74

 

Ream's

1,066.00

 

Sam's Club, Murray UT

316.32

 

The Last Chance

20.00

July 5

Drake (motel room in SLC while attending woman in coma)

40.00

 

Lovin' Oven (kitchen)

500.00

 

Patrick (gas for shuttle)

50.00

 

Rob Savoye (water filters, radio batteries)

819.00

July 6

Hawker (water filters)

400.00

 

C.A.L.M.

300.00

 

Cleanup Supplies

70.00

 

Simply Wonderful (kitchen)

300.00

July 7

Patrick (gas for shuttle)

50.00

 

 

 

 

Total

8,574.32

 



From: Eliyahu Simchah
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 19, 2003

Butterfly Bill wrote:

> All about how your money went into and out of the Magic Hat at the recent Utah national gathering can now be viewed at
> http://www.grapevine.net/~butterflybill/UtahBank.htm

Love the pie chart !!!

Good Morning,
Eliyahu Simchah


From: JoaneeF
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 19, 2003

From: Butterfly Bill

> All about how your money went into and out of the Magic Hat at the recent Utah national gathering can now be viewed at

Great BB!!! Thanks for the good work...

ove ya,

Joanee


From: Ruth Kaufman
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 19, 2003

“Butterfly Bill” <butter...@grapevine.net> wrote in message news:Xns93BD85CB36DC4butterflybillgrapevi@209.242.86.10...

> All about how your money went into and out of the Magic Hat at the recent Utah national gathering can now be viewed at

5,000 for cleanup? We,’ve never spent that much before as far as i know. Is this money to cover expected bills from the USFS under the permit stipulations?


From: Marty
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 19, 2003

Ruth Kaufman wrote:

> 5,000 for cleanup? We,’ve never spent that much before as far as i know. Is this money to cover expected bills from the USFS under the permit stipulations?

I was wondering under which category he was putting those.

Marty


From: Butterfly Bill
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 19, 2003

“Ruth Kaufman” <x9...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> 5,000 for cleanup? We,’ve never spent that much before as far as i know. Is this money to cover expected bills from the USFS under the permit stipulations?

No, it’s to rent tools to till the soil with (they were estimating that tractors might be needed), pay for dumpsters of nonrecyclables to be hauled out, buy grass seed, all kinds of stuff. None of it for FS bills.

-Butterfly Bill


From: Marty
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 19, 2003

Butterfly Bill wrote:

> No, it’s to rent tools to till the soil with (they were estimating that tractors might be needed), pay for dumpsters of nonrecyclables to be hauled out, buy grass seed, all kinds of stuff. None of it for FS bills.

Any of it required by bills resulting from the fulfillment of the terms and conditions of the permit? (The dumpsters and tractors in particular caught my eye.)

Marty


From: Butterfly Bill
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 20, 2003

Marty <mar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Any of it required by bills resulting from the fulfillment of the terms and conditions of the permit? (The dumpsters and tractors in particular caught my eye.)

Ask Plunker or Garrick or Floppy or any of the other people actually doing cleanup for the details. I don’t know them all myself, nor do I want to or feel I should find them out. The amount is what they wanted, I trust their experience and judgment to spend it the best way they can.

-BB


From: Marty
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 20, 2003

Other recipients: garrick, PeaceTribes

Butterfly Bill wrote:

> Ask Plunker or Garrick or Floppy or any of the other people actually doing cleanup for the details.

I’ve CC’d this to two of them and I request that they reply to the newsgroup. (Private replies to this message will be forwarded to a.g.r)

> I don’t know them all myself, nor do I want to or feel I should find them out.

Maybe that’s why they trust you. You do what you’re told and don’t ask questions. It makes me wonder if your slick report, complete with fancy pie chart, is just smoke and mirrors.

> The amount is what they wanted, I trust their experience and judgment to spend it the best way they can.

Their experience is in collaborating with the feds. Their judgement is that it’s OK to violate participants rights by misrepresentation. Just the kind people you would want to turn the Magic Hat money over to.

Marty


From: lonewolf
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 20, 2003

Butterfly Bill <butter...@grapevine.net> wrote in message news:<Xns93BE4ADA864Ebutterflybillgrapevi@209.242.86.10>...

> Ask Plunker or Garrick or Floppy or any of the other people actually doing cleanup for the details. I don’t know them all myself, nor do I want to or feel I should find them out. The amount is what they wanted, I trust their experience and judgment to spend it the best way they can.

or is the money for the hotel rooms & hot tubs everyone has been talking about ????????

love & peace
lone wolf


From: Karin Zirk
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 20, 2003

Some things I know about where the clean up funds were going.

There was approximately $400-450 to repay the USFS for the broken window in a LEO vehicle from the “incident”. The people who paid it reviewed the repair bill and only paid that amount.

Many people felt that the lower bus village parking lot was going to need heavy equipment to break up the soil. During the snows that entire area turned into a big muddy mess. I have no idea how much that type of work costs so I’ll leave guestimates to qualified people.

That’s all I know about where clean up funds were going.

Thanks to Bill for making the banking report available to all.

To those who don’t like where the money was spent, I suggest that next year you go to the gathering and be on the banking council.

Love,
Karin


From: Marty
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 20, 2003

Karin Zirk wrote:

> Some things I know about where the clean up funds were going.
> There was approximately $400-450 to repay the USFS for the broken window in a LEO vehicle from the “incident”. The people who paid it reviewed the repair bill and only paid that amount.

This was hiding under BB’s “cleanup costs.” WTF!!

<snip>

> To those who don’t like where the money was spent, I suggest that next year you go to the gathering and be on the banking council.

At this point I feel like going just to break FS vehicle windows.

Marty


From: Barry Sacharow
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 20, 2003

Marty wrote:

> At this point I feel like going just to break FS vehicle windows.

What a man! What a concept! Builders of peace, you have heard the word of your new leader. Sign no permits! Break every window! Throw off your shackles... Marty will lead us on to VICTORY!!!!

Follow, Follow, Follow, Follow, Follow the Yellow Brick Road....

Yes its true, without a permit the streets are paved in GOLD!

Just ask Marty...

Oh Marty...

MARTY...

PLEASE DO NOT ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO ACT WITH VIOLENCE...

EVEN IF IT SERVES YOUR POLITICAL ENDS...

PPPPLLLLEEEEAAAASSSSSSSEEEEE!

With Love,
Barry


From: Marty
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 20, 2003

Barry Sacharow wrote:

> What a man! What a concept! Builders of peace, you have heard the word of your new leader. Sign no permits! Break every window! Throw off your shackles... Marty will lead us on to VICTORY!!!!

Incidently, were you part of that particular misappropriation of funds?

Marty


From: Barry Sacharow
Subject: Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 20, 2003

> Incidently, were you part of that particular misappropriation of funds? Nope, but please do not let that stop you for attacking me for it...

I had absoluting nothing to do with money this year at all, well except that...

Lessee, because last year I signed a permit in Florida, misbehaving children busted out...

Nah, I don’t even want to try, even when I think I’m being funny...

Bad hippie’s! Don’t throw rocks! Even if there is a permit without Marty’s permission, even if...

PLEASE DO NOT TAKE VIOLENT ACTIONS AGAINST HUMANS AND OTHER LIVING THINGS!!!

I VOTE NO!!!

I BLOCK!!!

NO ROCKS!!!

GOT IT NOW!!!

With Love,
Barry


From: raindog
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 20, 2003

“Barry Sacharow” <barr...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:3F1B5EAC.5060701@bellsouth.net...

> PLEASE DO NOT ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO ACT WITH VIOLENCE...
> EVEN IF IT SERVES YOUR POLITICAL ENDS...

as marty represents only himself, he’s hardly anybelly’s leader. and you’re a fine one to speak of “political ends”, barry.


From: Marty
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 20, 2003

Barry Sacharow wrote:

> Bad hippie’s! Don’t throw rocks!

How about a concealed pellet gun at 60 yards?

> PLEASE DO NOT TAKE VIOLENT ACTIONS AGAINST HUMANS AND OTHER LIVING THINGS!!!

It’s just window glass.

Marty


From: jbird
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

Marty <mar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<bffl16$v5c$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>...

> At this point I feel like going just to . . . .

I find that statement objectionable enough not to repeat it in its entirety. That you may have felt that way may be true; that you expressed it here is a separate issue. I would have expected a qualifier, or disclaimer, or some indication that it was not an actual intent.

-j-


From: raindog
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

“jbird” <aberwocki...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:e87ab3b6.0307202144.263fce13@posting.google.com...

> I find that statement objectionable enough not to repeat it in its entirety. That you may have felt that way may be true; that you expressed it here is a separate issue. I would have expected a qualifier, or disclaimer, or some indication that it was not an actual intent.

just to break FS vehicle windows.

jbird, destruction of property is an age-old method expressing dissent. you might recall a boston tea party...

{{see, thistle? people who object to the signing of permits are NOT in lockstep}}

-raindog


From: Thunder
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

“Karin Zirk” <kz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:3F1B4F3C.6D55@earthlink.net...

> Some things I know about where the clean up funds were going.
> There was approximately $400-450 to repay the USFS for the broken > window in a LEO vehicle from the “incident”.

Ahhhh!!! The ‘incident’. Seems I’ve been hearing that the ‘incident’ never actually occurred. How could this be, that a window was broken in a FS vehicle? Was it from a rock?

> The people who paid it reviewed the repair bill and only paid that amount. ...
> To those who don’t like where the money was spent, I suggest > that next year you go to the gathering and be on the banking > council.

All in all, $5,000 doesn’t seem like a hell of an awful lot of money for cleanup to me.


From: thistle
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

> {{see, thistle? people who object to the signing of permits are NOT in lockstep}}
> -raindog

Hey now, come on. I don’t think I ever said such a thing or implied it either. I know that all those against the permit are not in loockstep. I’m sorry if somehow that impression got in to some people’s minds. There is a wonderful line in a Sinead O’connnor song “listen to what I’m not saying” I know that is terrifically hard to do. Except for a 3 week period I have had virtually unlimited time to post as often as I chose. I could post on every thread if I wanted. I will try to post on some I may not have in an effort to clarify some of my postitions.


From: Sanity-Clause
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

jbird wrote:

> I find that statement objectionable enough not to repeat it in its entirety. That you may have felt that way may be true; that you expressed it here is a separate issue. I would have expected a qualifier, or disclaimer, or some indication that it was not an actual intent.

Language is a convention and an art. To me Marty saying he ‘felt like’ doing something is no more an indicator of intent than you, jbird, saying you ‘would expect a qualifier/disclaimer’ etc. rises to the level of a demand that he do so in the future.

Peace,
Sanity


From: Sanity-Clause
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

raindog wrote:

> just to break FS vehicle windows.
> jbird, destruction of property is an age-old method expressing dissent. you might recall a boston tea party...

My T’ai Chi Sifu has a Haggar the Horrible cartoon in his classroom. Dr. Zook says, “Violence begets violence!” to which Haggar replies, “Sounds fair.” This is not the road to Peace. “Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction. The chain reaction of evil- hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars – must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.” – Martin Luther King Jr.

> {{see, thistle? people who object to the signing of permits are NOT in lockstep}}

Peace is ‘out of step’ with violence. The Boston Tea Party was not a peaceful thing.

Sanity


From: raindog
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

“Sanity-Clause” <Sanity...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in messageews:3F1B7628.DC4B3509@worldnet.att.net...

> My T’ai Chi Sifu has a Haggar the Horrible cartoon in his classroom. Dr. Zook says, “Violence begets violence!” to which Haggar replies, “Sounds fair.” This is not the road to Peace.

though i’ve said it before here, i’ll say it again. the term “violence” applies where there is harm to living, feeling creatures - not inanimate, unfeeling things. semantics, you might say - i’ll be the first to admit i have an obsession with the meaning of words, but this is because i’m not overly fond of the consequence of their mis-use. take ‘democracy’ for example. i think you’re aware of how often that word has been mis-used and to what effect.

> “Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

unfortunately, this is not a hard and fast rule for the way of things. for example, fires are often set to put out a bigger fire. one liquid (glass) can be used to contain another liquid (water).

> Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of > destruction. The chain reaction of evil- hate begetting hate, wars producing > more wars - must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of > annihilation.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
> Peace is ‘out of step’ with violence. The Boston Tea Party was not a peaceful thing.

would you say it was not a necessary thing?

-raindog


From: raindog
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

“thistle” <michael...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:32f290ce.0307210103.559b9fa7@posting.google.com...

> Hey now, come on. I don’t think I ever said such a thing or implied it either. I know that all those against the permit are not in loockstep. I’m sorry if somehow that impression got in to some people’s minds. There is a wonderful line in a Sinead O’connnor song “listen to what I’m not saying” I know that is terrifically hard to do. Except for a 3 week period I have had virtually unlimited time to post as often as I chose. I could post on every thread if I wanted. I will try to post on some I may not have in an effort to clarify some of my postitions.

it is my sense that it was implied in the ‘Utah Health Permit Story, one side only’ thread in which you addressed Thunder thusly:

“until you are equally critical of Marty, jbird and the utterly disgusting vugarities that came from Eli I find it hard to trust you as a fair minded person.”

now here is proof that jbird is critical of marty, i’m critical of jbird, sanity is critical of me, and yet all four of us have in common an objection to the signing of permits for rainbow gatherings.

of course, being anti-permit, and being anti-barry sacharow are not entirely the same thing, but with the exception of perhaps sanity (who has expressed on this ng a bit of negative feeling towards bs for his handling of FARF), had bs signed no permits...he’d not have so many detractors. so the two are related.

-raindog


From: Barry Sacharow
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

raindog wrote:

> of course, being anti-permit, and being anti-barry sacharow are not entirely the same thing, but with the exception of perhaps sanity (who has expressed on this ng a bit of negative feeling towards bs for his handling of FARF), had bs signed no permits...he’d not have so many detractors. so the two are related.

Says you! My take on the issue (note that is singular, not plural!) is completely different, and I continue to see virtually no diference betwen you, (in)Sanity and any other member of the anti-permit, anti-gathering greek chorus.

And on the FARF thing, had (in)Sanity done his own research instead of relying soley on scottie’s wild and unsupported diatribes, he might have realized how far off base he was... (not that that would have efected what he said, but at least he might have had real info to lie about rather then wholey made up accusations)

But considering the source of both discussions, real research and honestly presenting the facts would be completely out of character...

BTW when will we “see” you “on the land or are your views just for the rest of us to either “obey” or suffer the consiquences on our own?

With Love,
Barry


From: citronella
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

“Barry Sacharow” <barr...@bellsouth.net> wrote

> I continue to see virtually no diference betwen you, (in)Sanity and any other member of the anti-permit, anti-gathering greek chorus.

Then you are continuing not to pay attention. Please see my reply to Bodh in a more recent thread about “splitting up the family.”

Citronella


From: Barry Sacharow
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

citronella wrote:

> Then you are continuing not to pay attention. Please see my reply to Bodh in a more recent thread about “splitting up the family.”

Please note I did not say that everyone who does not agree with permits is in the same catigory, only that there is a “greek chourus” of anti-permit pholks who are tag teaming and attacking anyone who disagrees with them.

Pewrhaps I should not even note them, but clearly they have many of the same attributes and one of them is this “my way or scorched earth” policy.

Fortunately few of these group actually attends gatehrings anymore, so here, on AGR, is their “last stand.” I guess we should be grateful for something.

BTW, IMHO, for most of this group, I think the issue has much less to do with permits and much more to do with destroying what they cannot force into their image of what the rest of us must do...

And for the record, I do not consider you a part of these “pholks.”

With Love,
Barry


From: Sanity-Clause
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

raindog wrote:

> though i’ve said it before here, i’ll say it again. the term “violence” applies where there is harm to living, feeling creatures - not inanimate, unfeeling things.

FS Rangers are sure to be upset {read: “at least somewhat emotionally distraught”} if folks start breaking the US Gummint owned and paid for equipment they use. Destroy Gummint property and they’ll just tax you more to replace it. You are advocating kicking yourself and giving a Peace movement a bad rap for violence.

> semantics, you might say - i’ll be the first to admit i have an obsession with the meaning of words, but this is because i’m not overly fond of the consequence of their mis-use. take ‘democracy’ for example. i think you’re aware of how often that word has been mis-used and to what effect.

Neither you nor I can force our understanding of the meaning of words on anyone. Language is a soft medium and a convention. Yes I am aware of deliberate misuse and ambiguities, lawyers and politicians use them all the time. ...

> would you say it was not a necessary thing?

Necessity is the plea of tyrants and the creed of slaves. The US is in the Middle East killing innocent children over oil because Dubya the Cheerleader-in-Cheif said: “WMD!!! IT’S NECESSARY!” The Boston Tea Party is played out like some fraternity prank in the history books, but I wonder how much of that tea was dumped into the harbor and how much was stolen, and was it really tea, or opium?

Cynically,
Sanity


From: Sanity-Clause
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

citronella wrote:

<deleted>th.net> wrote

> > I continue to see virtually no diference betwen you, (in)Sanity and any other member of the anti-permit, anti-gathering greek chorus.

> Then you are continuing not to pay attention. Please see my reply to Bodh in a more recent thread about “splitting up the family.”

His ignorance is feigned. He knows what’s what and is in bed with [LEO Incident Commander Malcolm] Jowers. Notice the twist of phrases: Now that “anti-permit” = “anti-gathering” it goes without saying that Gatherings are wrong if they don’t have Permits. It’s what isn’t said [went without saying but is to be assumed true] that tells the tale.

Sanity


From: Barry Sacharow
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

Sanity-Clause wrote:

> His ignorance is feigned. He knows what’s what and is in bed with Jowers.

Yea that’s it, when logic doesn’t work and all these quasi mumbo-jumbo made up phrases don’t work, accuse some one of being a Fed.

> Notice the twist of phrases: Now that “anti-permit” = “anti-gathering”

That came because regardless of the permit issue, a few faceless voices are now seeking to destroy everything that doesn’t meet with their fundimentalist agenda. You and others claimed that because you were unhappy with Garricks actions, Boycott!

Others are saying to ignore VC and go somewhere else, others are claiming everything from tickets to LEO’s being pelted with rocks & snowballs was the falt of the permit. There was even one thread that claimed the late June snow was the fault of the permit signers being in bed with the scouts...

You, of course, use a diferent tactic... you make up words, phrases and legal concepts, out of thin air, and then use them as the justification for doing all the same things that the rest of your ANTI-GATHERING friends and followers are...

> it goes without saying that Gatherings are wrong if they don’t have Permits.

No I never said that, I said the best answer for Ocala was a permit, at least for the last two years. I also supported the effort made by Garrick, but did not agree with everything he did...

Where did you get this nonsence about gatherings are wrong if they have a permit... Oh it must have come from the illegally titled nobility that runs this country in cahoots with the Church, as they conspire together to keep the Kennedy Assasination secret and change the words of the bible... or is that the constitution? Wasn’t Kissenger and Bush part of that plot as well?

> It’s what isn’t said [went without saying but is to be assumed true] that tells the tale.

And that would be because I say so little...

Well so little that has been cleared by the censors and the illegally titled nobility...

With Love and tonge firmly implanted in cheek..

Cheeky, I think they say...
Barry


From: raindog
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

“Sanity-Clause” <Sanity...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:3F1BBB5F.A3DF33AA@worldnet.att.net...

> Necessity is the plea of tyrants and the creed of slaves

and the mother of invention...

or is that the mother of all inventions? ;)


From: Sanity-Clause
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

raindog wrote:

> and the mother of invention...
> or is that the mother of all inventions? ;)

You lookin’ fer the official anal legal answer or will you settle for colloquial? %~/

Sanity


From: Kinda
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

“Thunder” <thunder5...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<S4MSa.2672$GR1.81...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...

> Ahhhh!!! The ‘incident’. Seems I’ve been hearing that the ‘incident’ never actually occurred. How could this be, that a window was broken in a FS vehicle? Was it from a rock?

It occurred. It was a rock. Rainbow rumor has it that it was actually a little girl who did the throwing. I don’t agree with her, but let me say that we were sorely provoked that day. I was around for the provocation but (fortunately) wandered off minutes before the actual incident. Unfortunately I had the reporter from the Ogden Standard with me, so they didn’t get to see the police run a horse over Free Rainbow Hugs. They were too busy wandering Main Meadow, having a wonderful time and writing a wonderful story. I don’t know if anyone saw the story in the Ogden Standard, but it was a very loving and fair story indeed. Maybe it wasn’t a bad thing that they weren’t there.

Officer Owens, by the way (if he’s the officer I think he was), was the real cause of the incident from what I saw. The whole fracas began when he tried to issue a ticket to a mother of two for having her dog off the leash. A bunch of people gathered around to give him a piece of their minds, and I think that’s what put us all in the “refuse and resist” mood. things seem to have snowballed from there. But, like I said, I wandered off before the actual “incident.” I’d like to hear from someone who was there.

> All in all, $5,000 doesn’t seem like a hell of an awful lot of money for cleanup to me.

Yeah, me too. This year I found out just how little money the Gathering actually runs on. It’s amazing, absolutely amazing.

How’s cleanup going? Who’s still out there?

Love,
Kinda

lexpages.com/apdp


From: thistle
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

“raindog” <mlor...@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<bZPSa.112571$Io.96...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...

> until you are equally critical of Marty, jbird and the utterly disgusting vugarities that came from Eli I find it hard to trust you as a fair minded person.”
> now here is proof that jbird is critical of marty, i’m critical of jbird, sanity is critical of me, and yet all four of us have in common an objection to the signing of permits for rainbow gatherings.

I’ve seen people ripped to shreds line by line or flamed for paragraphs for a few lines. I don’t see this calm, rational disagreement as being even close to equally critical.


From: fish...@conservatory.com
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 21, 2003

In article <bffqe6$r6r$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>,Marty <mar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> It’s just window glass.

There was a claim that the occupant of the car was injured.

Besides, it wasn’t “just window glass,” it was a crossing of the line between nonviolence and violence.


From: patfromlogan
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

Thunder” <thunder5...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<S4MSa.2672$GR1.81...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...

> All in all, $5,000 doesn’t seem like a hell of an awful lot of money for cleanup to me.

Well I heard that all the money is going to cocaine, booze, and wild women (oh, and a wild man for the woman). The remaining tens of thousands are going to the crooked devious master minds of the devil worshipping Rainbow elite! They are investing it on the “street” with loan sharks and numbers rackets. By next year’s gathering these crooks will have made so much money off of human misery that they will fly into the site on black hawk helicopters and then they will never take off their sun glasses.


From: Marty
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 21, 2003

fish...@conservatory.com wrote:

> Besides, it wasn’t “just window glass,” it was a crossing of the line between nonviolence and violence.

Does the justify the permit signer siezing that money from the majic hat? Especially after he signed as “an individual?”

Why didn’t he pay out of his own personal bank account?

Marty


From: rainbow1
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking Report
Date: July 21, 2003

Butterfly Bill wrote:

Thanks for all the good info.

gaia


From: Sanity-Clause
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 21, 2003

Marty wrote:

> Does the justify the permit signer siezing that money from the majic hat? Especially after he signed as “an individual?”
> Why didn’t he pay out of his own personal bank account?

I’ve begun to believe Garrick doesn’t understand the distinction between his own individuality and the “Group” he can’t seem to help speaking for. Truly, I see no guile, he just uses “I” and “we” interchangeably.....

Sanity


From: Kinda
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 21, 2003

fish...@conservatory.com wrote in message news:<HoZSa.82212$o86....@news1.central.cox.net>...

> There was a claim that the occupant of the car was injured.
> Besides, it wasn’t “just window glass,” it was a crossing of the line between nonviolence and violence.

The occupant was not injured. The only person injured that day was Free Rainbow Hugs. And though I’d agree that it’s blurring the line, it was not crossing the line. Think of it as tagging.

love,
Kinda

lexpages.com/apdp


From: Marty
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 21, 2003

Sanity-Clause wrote:

> I’ve begun to believe Garrick doesn’t understand the distinction between his own individuality and the “Group” he can’t seem to help speaking for. Truly, I see no guile, he just uses “I” and “we” interchangeably.....

If you found extra charges on your credit card, would you assume that the spender just “doesn’t understand the distinction between his own individuality” and you?

Marty


From: Sanity-Clause
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 21, 2003

Marty wrote:

> If you found extra charges on your credit card, would you assume that the spender just “doesn’t understand the distinction between his own individuality” and you?

No. If I got a bill for a Permitted Group’s collective guilt which was foisted upon me by Jowers by way of Garrick’s mindlessly egocentric idiocy I wouldn’t blame Garrick. Not guilty by reason of mental defect is a reasonable defense way eye seize it.

Read Garrick’s “Arc of Light: An Opinion on Permit Options” piece in All Ways Free. Garrick says “we,” “us” and “our” a whole bunch of times as he tries to rationalize his actions, tries to call the principles of Wisdom and Right septet and distinct but didn’t say which if either should be followed, names the Group “Individuals” etc. which is plural and then says he’s signing for himself alone. His writing and actions are so rife with contradictions I just can’t believe he acted with a guilty mind. Jowers is another matter...

Loving Light,
Sanity


From: Sanity-Clause
Subject: oops: Re: 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 21, 2003

Sanity-Clause wrote:

> Read Garrick’s “Arc of Light: An Opinion on Permit Options” piece in All Ways Free. Garrick says “we,” “us” and “our” a whole bunch of times as he tries to rationalize his actions, tries to call the principles of Wisdom and Right septet

Should read “separate” instead of “septet.” Sorry.


From: Marty
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 21, 2003

Sanity-Clause wrote:

> Not guilty by reason of mental defect is a reasonable defense way eye seize it.

Maybe you’re right, but if that defect is of a similar nature to that of Jim Jones or Marshall Applewhite (of Heaven’s Gate) then I would say “Houston we have a problem.”

Marty


From: thistle
Subject: 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 22, 2003

Marty <mar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<bfhtis$35p$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>...

fish...@conservatory.com wrote:

> > Besides, it wasn’t “just window glass,” it was a crossing of the line between nonviolence and violence.

> Does the justify the permit signer siezing that money from the majic hat?

That is just hyperbole. Was there a banking council? Did they discuss this and reach consensus? Who was on the council and what was generally said? I haven’t seen these questions answered adequetly here and I read pretty throughly. Unless you have answers to these questions you’re simply making assumtions.

Especially after he signed as “an individual?”


From: Sanity-Clause
Subject: Cults: was 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 22, 2003

Marty wrote:

> Maybe you’re right, but if that defect is of a similar nature to that of Jim Jones or Marshall Applewhite (of Heaven’s Gate) then I would say “Houston we have a problem.”

That’s the very reason I don’t like leaders or self appointed spokesmen.

Sanity


From: Miranda Raven
Subject: Cults: was 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report
Date: July 23, 2003

Sanity-Clause wrote:

If the defect made one sing like a pop diva then you could say “Houston, we have a Whitney!”

m the r


From: Sanity-Clause
Subject: Cults: was 2003 Utah Banking and Rock Throwing Report

Miranda Raven wrote:

> If the defect made one sing like a pop diva then you could say “Houston, we have a Whitney!”

BOO! ;^)

 

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